Media > Why can't women be priests?

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JFMSJ 3 years ago

fmfosnacht,

If Cardinal Mahony does indeed reject the idea that Jesus ordained the twelve to the ministerial priesthood or the episcopacy, he would do well to say so. Yes, his comments about other ministries and especially women were excellent. However, all of that was undermined by his initial, inaccurate statement.

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fmfosnacht 3 years ago

Thanks for the link. I suspect Cardinal Mahoney agrees with everything in the article. Given the fact that Jesus never ordained anyone, his answer is the best version of the differing charisms in ministry I have heard from a cleric in some time... especially in the huge recognition he gives to women in ministry. We don't hear that often...

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CathPresbyter 3 years ago

Tfaver there is no denial of self is understanding that God made male and female different. One is not superior because one births, or one fathers, these are distinctions that highlight the beauty of God's creation.

Priesthood is not about guidance or lording of power. (Remember Jesus tells the apostles it must not be so with you.) Priesthood is about service, a particular way to share Christ's presence with the community of God through the sacraments. We need to get the entire priesthood issue out of the issue of power, and return it to its proper forum.

I as a male have been under the guidance of this half of the population, as you refer to them. My mother guided me into adulthood by being the primary home parent, when my father was always gone on work. My mother guided me into how to love and care. Many teachers, and in particular theology professors trained me, especially in seminary. (As an example Dr. Susan Matthews at the U of Scranton, best scripture professor I have ever had.) The Blessed mother has guided me in my spiritual walk. Many women have been there for me, to support and nuture me when men looked the other way. But their role is different than a fatherly role, which is what priesthood is all about.

Gender was created by God, who created them male and female in the book of Genesis. And identity lies in gender, as it does in ethnic group, socio economic distinctions, family of origin, and many other things. Uniformity is not what Christianity is about, but each person who they are, and where they are being united to God. We are not cookie cutter people, but each distinct, and special, each with a particular role. As St. Paul would say the hand is not the foot and vice versa. We are all part of the body, none better none inferior, each has a mission, a call, a job to do in the body. The hand should not resent the eye, nor want its job. Nor should women wish to leave their lofty role, given by God, to be something else. Rather we limit spiritual growth, by trying to be what we are not. Artificial men is not the role of women. Grace builds upon or perfects nature according to St. Thomas, it does not eradicate it. True growth can only occur when we work in accord with our nature. What you think we deny, the chance to learn and grow is present, if one only stops looking at priesthood as power, but of service.

This is the price of decades of clericalism, nature hates a vacuum and tries to fill it. Clericalist priests being dictators has led to people wanting to be just like them. So women's ordination comes up, the sanctuary full of lay people is another offshoot. When what we need is a proper distinction between ministerial priesthood and common priesthood. As opposed to all people trying to be artificial priests, what we need is our lay faithful to pick up Vatican II, and start to be yeast for the world. The loss to spiritual development is that our lay faithful don't see the real beauty in their call, and spend their time trying to do clerical things, while clerics try to act like the lay faithful. We should stop running from our calls, and respond, and say "here I am."

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joxios 4 years ago

Hello Carson,
Biblically and spiritually, Israel was and the Church is a nation of Priests, a holy convocation, spiritually we are all called to be priests and testify of our love and knowledge of Christ.
The Priest is a physical reprresent of Christ on Earth. Christ came as Man, which is very significant. Jesus Christ speaks through His priests at the Concecration , when Priests say the Words, "This is my Body..."

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tfaver 4 years ago

Such a shame that we are denying ourselves the opportunity to learn and grow under the guidance of half the population. By creating these gender identities, we limit our spiritual development.

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CathPresbyter 3 years ago

Look this is basic High School theology, what you would get in an intro class, if the teacher was any good. All Bishops have priesthood!!! Remember they have the fullness of the priesthood, (Try reading Trent: 23 session, Chapter IV, Par 7) Jesus choose the apostles(Matt 4:18, 9:9). Scripture teaches all of the apostles were bishops, therefore they were all priests. Jesus commanded the apostles to celebrate the Last Supper, which only priests can celebrate. Don't you remember how they are sent out with authority in 10:1. (Read the council of Florence which says Priesthood is conferred by the handing over of the chalice.. and patin.(Eucharistic Bread and wine) Which would have happened with the 'take and eat.. drink," all of this is prefigured by the washing feet a symbol of ministerial fertility.(Jn 13:5-17) Remember the whole you will have no share with me to Peter - duh ministry.)

Therefore the Cardinal is correct, one of the few times I would agree with him on anything. Those apostles were presbyters if they were overseers.

You might want to put some time into the Apostolic Fathers, they are all over this, Clement, Ignatius of Antioch, Ireneas of Leon just to name a few. (I would be more than happy to send you copies of the councils or patristic documents, or maybe even a basic catechism.)

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joxios 4 years ago

Hello SpirittalK,
Actuallly the term 'Presbyter' is where the term Priest comes from.
Ant then throughout the whole Bible, God's people are a Patriarcahl society.
Look at John 19:20, does Jesus give the authrority to any Women to bind and Loose, forgive sins?
The Spirit give gifts, We all have different talents.
Women have always been and ARE important part of the Church.

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joxios 4 years ago

Hello Spirit-Knitter,
No n]knitting there!!
The word Priest comes from the Greek word translated Presbyter (elder.
he gave the Apostes the powr to bind and Loose (allow and forbid) there judgement hld here on Earth and in heaven... and that power is handed down through the laying on of hands. In the anointing of the Priest at ordination it is a ontological Change. Jesus breaths New Life on His 12 Apostles John 19:20.

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CathPresbyter 3 years ago

The role of women in ministry?!?!

I think your language needs clarification. That would be like the role of women in fathering.

Women have a role in the apostolate, not ministry, except for in a role of assistance. Why is this because only priests and those in instituted ministries have a ministry.

I wouldn't get 3/4ths done in ministry without women to support me, but their apostolic role is not ministry.

It is very protestant to call everyone a minister. That is because they make up theology as they go, and then find a verse to support it. We as Catholics need to be far more careful using language, because words have a meaning. Equivocation only shows a lack of respect to both offices of the minister and the apostolate, and therefore to those involved in them.

Each is good, but distinct. Women have a very important role in the Apostolate, and in the spiritual life tend to excel past men with little effort. Again each part of the body has its role.

One need only consider the role of Mary. No other gem shines as bright in the entire order of creation. Not a ministerial priest, but a women from hence all generations will call blessed. In the ministry of Jesus was it not the women who cared for His needs and supported our Lord. Not priests, but wonderful women, who deserve honor and reverence. Recognition of their role is both in Scripture and Tradition. The greatest mystics are women, recognized by the church. And any good priest will immediately point out women who associate themselves to his ministry, through their apostolic labors. These roles are complimentary and any good ministry relies upon the apostolate for its support, as Jesus did with those holy women in the Gospels.

So their role is recognized, but it is not ministry, but apostolic.